245 Comments

Across The Middle: Dave Toub Could Help Bears Follow Jags Model

| December 20th, 2017

Fans wanting the Bears to follow the Rams model should prepare themselves for the fact that it isn’t that easy. What the Jaguars have done, however, could be replicated next year by hiring Dave Toub.

The comparisons to the Rams are easy. An outgoing veteran head coach who appears to have lost his way, a young quarterback, stud running back and good defense. But is there a Sean McVay available for the Bears to hire?

The hot names are Josh McDaniels, Matt Nagy and Pat Shurmur. McDaniels without Tom Brady wasn’t thought to be an offensive genius, Shurmur had some of the worst offenses in the league in St. Louis and Cleveland and Nagy has one year as an offensive coordinator under his belt.

The other part of the Rams turnaround is that McVay was able to bring a defensive genius with him (Wade Phillips). I have no idea who the next crop of coaches would bring as I don’t see Vic Fangio returning if he doesn’t get the head job. Dom Capers figures to be available, but only because he isn’t getting the job done in Green Bay. Other potential candidates include Mike Pettine, Chuck Pagano and Mike Nolan. Not the most exciting collection of coaches.

The Jaguars hired an offensive coach too, but Doug Marrone lets his offensive coordinator run the show. You could argue that Toub is an offensive coach since he was drafted as a center in the ’80s. That said, he also has experience as a defensive line coach and, while coaching special teams, he works with offensive and defensive players.

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The key for Toub is going to be his offensive coordinator. Norv Turner is a name to watch there since Toub did coach with his brother, Ron, with the Bears. Other than that, there are no clear connections to bright offensive minds.

I don’t consider Toub a likely candidate. The guy who will be doing the hiring has no prior relationship with him as they’ve hardly competed against one another and their paths have never crossed.

Dreaming of an offensive coach who is going to light up the Soldier Field scoreboard is fun but I just don’t know how realistic it is. I don’t think it’s hard to see Toub’s discipline and attention to detail being something that turns the Bears around.


Fox = Cutler?

The John Fox conversation has turned into the Jay Cutler conversation. One side insists he’s terrible and won’t hear any logic.

Cutler wasn’t a terrible quarterback and Fox isn’t a terrible coach. He just isn’t a very good coach and when you combine that with a below average roster, including a rookie quarterback, you don’t get much.

I saw the Bears maxing out at eight wins before this season began and that was probably generous. I went back and looked at the last 19 teams that started a rookie quarterback for at least 7 games and:

  • 12 won six games or fewer
  • 9 finished in the bottom ten in scoring (8 in the bottom six)
  • 10 finished in the bottom six in terms of passing yards.

The Bears have the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL, so their offensive struggles were predictable. They’ve actually held up defensively, but they aren’t the top-10 unit I thought they’d be.

The Bears are underachieving, but, all things considered, it isn’t as drastic as any seem to think. There are some who seriously think Fox is worse than Marc Trestman.

The Bears absolutely need a better coach, but the hate has gone too far.


Future of the NFC North

Aaron Rodgers is going to turn 35 years old next year and has suffered a number of injuries in recent seasons. If the Bears get their next coaching hire right, they could very well take control of the NFC North.

We saw this happen in the NFC West this year. The Rams came from nowhere to win the division and established themselves as the team to watch by dominating in Seattle last week. Russell Wilson is 29 years old and Seattle’s key defenders are all in their late-20s or early 30s. It’s the Rams division now and, if Seattle isn’t careful, the 49ers just might sneak up on them too.

The Packers have major questions marks beyond Rodgers, but this is the second time he’s broken his collarbone; a little Tony Romoish, isn’t it? He’s also had numerous bumps and bruises in recent seasons that affected his play. The Packers aren’t going to drop off like the Seahawks did, but I think the days of them dominating the division are soon coming to an end.

The Vikings seem to be the likely new kings, but it’s hard to trust a team that’s going forward with Case Keenum or Teddy Bridgewater at quarterback. The Lions seem forever stuck in purgatory.

It seems like a long shot right now, I know, but if Ryan Pace was right on Trubisky and get the next coach right, the division is there for the taking.

Bring On The Browns

This just feels like a game the Bears are going to lose.

The Browns actually have a pretty good front seven, which could be a big problem for the Bears’ depleted offensive line. A couple of turnovers could completely turn this game.

I imagine the Browns will struggle scoring against the Bears too, but the Bears still have at least a few defensive breakdowns every game and Josh Gordon is a mismatch.

Under John Fox, the Bears have never won as favorites. They really should beat the Browns, which is more reason to think they won’t.

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  • Scharfinator

    “The Bears have the worst group of pass catchers in the NFL, so their offensive struggles were predictable. They’ve actually held up defensively, but they aren’t the top-10 unit I thought they’d be.”

    And to be fair, they’ve had some tough situations they’ve been put in this year.

    • John Snoke

      The Bears should recruit the fastest and best receivers from the ranks of the poor slaver planets, younglings without hope. It worked well to restock the ranks of the First Order quickly.

  • BearDown100393

    “……as I don’t see Vic Fangio returning if he doesn’t get the head job.”

    If Vic Fangio really wanted to be a HC, he probably would already have the position at an interim level. That didn’t happen. Fangio may not be committed long term to Chicago in any job title. Furthermore Fangio as HC is not likely to be able to improve upon Mitch Trubisky’s progress or the offense in general.

    • Andrew Dannehy

      You don’t really believe this do you? Of course Fangio wants to be a head coach. He’s interviewed for jobs in the past. He doesn’t have the interim tag because they don’t want to give it to him.

      • BearDown100393

        He does not want to be the HC for the Chicago Bears.

        And I do not blame him.

  • Bears-4-Ever

    A Christmas Gift Win for the Browns? Fuck that. The Bears D should smash’em in the teeth. If they lose to the Browns, Fox should be burned in effigy outside Halas Hall. No excuses, we’re done with excuses.

    Bears 21
    Browns 10

    BEAR DOWN.

    • Bender McLugh

      yes? I think they’ll win because all season they’ve been doing the opposite of what they should.

      Still, BEAR DOWN!

  • Bender McLugh

    “There are some who seriously think Fox is worse than Marc Trestman.

    The Bears absolutely need a better coach, but the hate has gone too far.”

    so true

    • ButtonShoes

      Not true. Fox’s record here speaks for itself.

      • Bender McLugh

        your record on here speaks for itself bub.

        • ButtonShoes

          Uh huh.

        • BearDown100393

          What did he express incorrectly?

        • SC Dave

          You haven’t blocked him yet?

          • Bender McLugh

            I unblocked a few today, feeling feisty

      • “Modestly” Huge Bears Penis

        Fox record 132-122
        Trestman 13-19

        record comparison seems to show Fox is a better coach.

        • willbest

          You missed the word “here”

    • BearDown100393

      By all means build a statue and revere the Almighty Hobo – holder of the worst career coaching record of the Bears.

      The sooner Fox is fired, the better.

  • BerwynBomber

    Agree about the possible end of Rodgers and the Cheese. Been saying it for a few years that Rodgers isn’t likely to age as well as Brady and Manning due to his size and style of play. Plus, the Cheese seem to be only a .500 team (or worse) w/out him.

    But I wouldn’t count the Lions out. Pie Face isn’t top five but he is solidly top half of the league and he’s in his prime. Yes, I know they’re the Lions. But they have had our number of late. And Caldwell for all the jokes seems a competent HC.

    Overall agree with the take — the division could be ours for the taking — but we should consider all three teams, not just Rodgers and the Vikings.

    • Bender McLugh

      meh….Lions will be Lions

      • BearDown100393

        Swept the Bears.

      • BerwynBomber

        Sure. At some point. But they have also been to the post-season three times since Pie Face has been there.

        We, OTOH, have been to the playoffs once in the last ten years.

        • BearDown100393

          It truly is incredulous to piss on rival teams who have victory lapped the Bears in recent memory.

          • BerwynBomber

            I understand the Rodgers/Cheese obsession and am guilty of it myself at times.

            Short of Brady, the guy is arguably the greatest QB of his generation. They’ve won an SB w/him, he’s led them to countless division titles, he served as very unflattering and (I’d argue) unfair comparison for our last franchise QB, and has won two league MVPs (and probably should have won a third last year).

            Fuck, he just threw three INTs last week and he hasn’t done that in nine years. NINE years. That’s stunning.

            BUT … I agree with you. We should never dismiss MIN or DET. MIN could be the best team in the NFC, and no matter who their QB is they will be load for a few years. Plus, I’d argue Zimmer is the best HC in the division.

            And yes, DET (for all the jokes) isn’t half bad either. That franchise, IMV, has turned a corner. They have been no treat to win an SB, but they have pretty much been a constant playoff contender ever since Caldwell arrived.

            We shouldn’t take them lightly.

          • Bender McLugh

            good points, all.

            Fuck the Pack. Fuck the Lions. Fuck the Vikings.

          • willbest

            Basement is our residence until we prove its not.

          • BearDown100393

            4th season in a row.

        • Bender McLugh

          true true, it’s just the Lions don’t seem to be able to get over that hump and they won’t do it this year. I agree that Caldwell is a good fit for them.

      • SC Dave

        The Bears are 1-9 vs. Detroit since Lovie was fired.

        • Bender McLugh

          and?

          • Scharfinator

            Are we the new Lions….?

          • Bender McLugh

            no way, there can be only one Lions baby. We’re still pretty bad and this rebuild is taking longer for obvious reasons…..bad coaching hires, etc.

          • BearDown100393

            We are the Browns

          • AlbertInTucson

            Actually, we’re more Tampa Bay.

            They also have won A Super Bowl.

            They also seem lost in the Woods for what feels like forever.

            They also cut a kicker, Matt Bryant, who they thought was washed up but, it turns out, was not.

          • Bear Instincts

            no point in trash talking the Lions when they have the upper hand. that’s like calling someones gf ugly when you don’t have a gf of your own. its not a good look

          • Bender McLugh

            pshhh…when has that stopped rivals from talking crap about each other? yeah, never.

          • BearDown100393

            Is it a rivalry when you do not win?

          • SC Dave

            One or both parts of “meh… Lions will be Lions” is/are no longer true.

          • Bender McLugh

            we’ll disagree on that hahah

          • SC Dave

            So it seems! 🙂

  • BearDown100393

    “This just feels like a game the Bears are going to lose.”

    And yet you defend Fox.

    Pathetic.

  • Bender McLugh

    Toub should absolutely be the next Bears head coach, but I think we all know none of us are going to predict who the brass will pick. It’s going to be someone out of far left or far right field, possibly the All Blacks head coach. They love to keep us guessing.

    • BearDown100393

      Pacebot has zero connection with Toub.

      • evantonio

        He had zero connection with Fox

        • BearDown100393

          And look how great that worked out.

          • evantonio

            oh, it’s been disastrous. but you weren’t talking about results. way i read it, you were saying Toub had no chance because of the connection, or lack thereof.

          • BearDown100393

            I agree Dave Toub should be interviewed.

            I do not believe Dave Toub is anywhere on Pace’s radar.

            IMO Pace will hinge his future on someone he has previous experience with.

          • But this might tie into your, and others, contention that the McCaskeys are sinking the org.

            Will the McCaskeys have the humility to admit they were wrong in not even giving Toub a reach around HC interview before they hired Trestman?

            Doubt it.

            Sorry Toub backers.

          • BearDown100393

            If Ryan Pace is truly expected to general manage this team, George McCaskey and his mouthpieces must be silenced.

    • Bender McLugh

      I mean, just look at this guy, Chicago media would love him

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Hansen

    • Sactowns#1

      Pace is always the smartest guy in the room (or at least he thinks he is). So you’re right. He’ll pick some dark horse that nobody has heard of. A project. he LOVES projects.

      • Bender McLugh

        hehe a project for HC though? nah

  • SC Dave

    “The Bears absolutely need a better coach, but the hate has gone too far.”

    This.

  • CanadaBear

    Man how sad are The Beloved? They are playing a team that is 0-14, at home on X-mas Eve, favored to win by close to a TD and most of us think they will take it in the shorts. I think Gordon is going off this week and the Bears never win a game when they are favored under Foxy. FUCK!

    • BearDown100393

      It will get worse before it gets better

      • CanadaBear

        2 more games!

        • BearDown100393

          This won’t end after 2 games.

          • CanadaBear

            With better health, the right staff, some decent FA signings and another good draft, this could easily turn around next year. That’s a lot of ifs but it’s not out of the realm of possibilities. Nothing against ya but if you’re just gonna piss on anything positive, why stick around?

          • BearDown100393

            Voice of reason

    • Irish Sweetness

      Lets think about this.

      CLE are +240 or +6.5!! Isn’t that about 7/2 to for CLE to win straight up?

      • CanadaBear

        Not a gambler.

    • AlbertInTucson

      “People told me, ‘Smile, things could be worse.’ So, I smiled and , sure enough, things got worse.”

  • CanadaBear

    Fudgies put Erin back on IR. They’re lucky he didn’t get re-injured in that Carolina game.

    • Scharfinator

      If you aren’t making it post season, shut down your stars. Seems like something we need to learn.

      • Bear Instincts

        agree

    • BearDown100393

      He had no arm strength

    • BerwynBomber

      Very lucky and an incredibly dumb move in the first place. You have a Bradford or a Cutler coming off a similar injury? Sure, WTF. Throw him out there. Rodgers? No. Fucking. Way.

      • CanadaBear

        100%. One of these years the Fudgies are going to be in the same QB boat as most teams. If that doesn’t get Fudgie mgmt fired, nothing will. Can’t say much because they have pretty much owned the division for a while but if they only get that one title with Rodgers, they will regret it.

      • willbest

        I would bet money this was all on Rodgers. If he came back and was the hero and pushed them deep to the post season then he would be looking at $28 million/yr $110 mil guaranteed or something crazy

        • CanadaBear

          I’m guessing it was Erin’s decision but I’d be shocked if Thompson and McCarthy weren’t encouraging him to come back.

          • willbest

            Considering they would have needed to win out and gotten an assist on a Seattle and/or Falcons loss from somebody else I doubt Thompson would have been willing to play those percentages. Grimace is another story.

          • CanadaBear

            Kinda depends on how warm their seats are getting.

          • willbest

            I wonder how that works when there isn’t a billionaire owner that gets to play with his toy the way he wants to.

          • SC Dave

            Seattle certainly looks ready to take another loss.

          • BearDown100393

            Ultimately it is Thompson/Grimace’s decision to activate Erin for the game. They hold the responsibility.

          • CanadaBear

            True enough but if Erin said he wasn’t ready to go they wouldn’t have activated him.

        • BerwynBomber

          I would be surprised if money was the guiding incentive for Rodgers. More likely living up to Favre’s iron man rep and his own competitive nature.

          Probably all guys of Rodgers level, regardless of position (think Lach for us), wanna play ASAP. But it’s up to the coaching staff, management and team doctors to step in and tell them they would like to extend the rehab for precautionary purposes.

          • willbest

            That is probably true. But I think being the highest paid QB in the league is a competition he wants to win too.

          • BearDown100393

            I think your 2nd sentence is spot on.

            I cannot fault Erin for wanting to suit up.

  • Doc Hamstring

    So from the photo Kyle Long posted to his Twitter, it would appear he had an anterior cervical fusion–he herniated a disc in his neck and the surgeon goes in through the front of the neck to remove the damaged disc, put a plate and screws in, and fuse two vertebrae together.

    Basically, what Peyton Manning had done.

    The surgery and recovery is actually pretty easy. What concerns me is any symptoms he had leading to the surgery. Weakness and pain in one arm is usually present. You hope that the affected nerve recovers, but if the nerve was affected for a long time, the chances it recovers 100% are lower. Long story short, Kyle might have permanent weakness in one arm.

    Depending on the level of the fusion, it could affect different parts of the arm. Looking at where the gauze is on his throat, my educated guess is that any lingering weakness would be in his tricep. From what he wrote on Twitter, his (left) shoulder issues led to and/or revealed the neck problem. So any nerve injury would be the same shoulder that he tore the labrum in. I don’t know if he’s going to get the labrum repaired, but in any case, he could potentially have a long or even permanent decrease in strength in his left arm. I would anticipate any future position on the line he plays would have to take that into consideration.

    In other words, with his left arm weakened, he’s pretty much locked into right OG.

    Now, all this is moot if the nerve damage heals quickly. And herniated discs in the neck can lead people to think they have upper arm/shoulder problems, so it’s entirely possible his labrum tear is not significant enough to warrant surgery, and the affected nerve from the neck herniation recovers and he’s good as new in about 3 months. That’s the best-case scenario. Worst-case is that he’s had a herniation for a long time, permanently affecting that nerve, and it was misdiagnosed as a shoulder issue for so long that he’ll have permanent weakness in the tricep (like Manning with his noodle arm) and it will never come back.

    This has been your Hamstring Minute™

    • ButtonShoes

      Well…..fuck.

    • BearDown100393

      Long is glue.

    • Scharfinator

      Dang, it is cool to have an expert on the blog.

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    • BerwynBomber

      Thanks. That would be a very costly misdiagnosis if the worst case is true.
      #Bears

    • Bear Instincts

      thanks doc. glad to have you around. you should apply for the strength and conditioning position with the beloved. you know more about their injuries than them.

      • BearDown100393

        This

    • “Hamming it up” TM

    • Irish Sweetness

      Yo Doc, are you a Doc?

    • Viva Dave Toub

      Kyle is a warrior! I hope he recovers fully!

  • Doc Hamstring

    Side note: an ACF, properly healed, has 0 increased risk for further injury to the area–in fact, it’s much less likely to result in an injury than an intact vertebrae-disc-vertebrae. The only lasting difference Kyle will have is decreased rotational, flexion, and (especially) extension range-of-motion. So when he gets down in his 3-point stance, he won’t be able to get his head/eyes up as much as he used to.

    And he’s unlikely to have other surgeries in the 3 months post-op; for the implant to be solidly in place and the bone to grow/fuse between the 2 vertebrae, he has to forgo any NSAIDs or corticosteroids that reduce inflammation (and inhibit bone regrowth). These are often medications that manage post-op pain and swelling for joint surgeries, so I wouldn’t anticipate him getting his labrum fixed anytime soon. And a labrum repair has a rather long recovery window, too, so I would guess that he’s not going to have that fixed this offseason–leading me to posit that his docs believe much of the symptoms he has experienced with his shoulder are ultimately due to the herniated disc in his neck.

    So I’m guessing–completely guessing, and hoping–that we’re closer to the best-case scenario I outlined than the worst-case scenario.

  • Viva Dave Toub

    Dave Toub for HC.

  • Big Mike

    I was cleaning bookmarks and came across my links for the 2015 draft. Before posting this, I cried a bit.
    1. Leonard Williams, 6’4 5/8, 302 pounds, DT, Southern California

    2. Jameis Winston, 6’4, 230 pounds, QB, Florida State

    3. Marcus Mariota, 6’4, 219 pounds, QB, Oregon

    4. Amari Cooper, 6’1, 210 pounds, WR, Alabama

    5. Randy Gregory, 6’6, 240 pounds, OLB/DE, Nebraska

    6. Todd Gurley, 6’1, 226 pounds, RB, Georgia

    7. Kevin White, 6’3, 210 pounds, WR, West Virginia

    8. Brandon Scherff, 6’5, 320 pounds, OT, Iowa – Pro Bowl Alternae this year

    9. Dante Fowler, 6’3, 260 pounds, DE, Florida

    10. Vic Beasley, 6’3, 235 pounds, OLB/DE, Clemson

    • BerwynBomber

      My argument against White at the time was that it seemed a pure BPA pick given how bad the D had been the previous year.

      BPA is all fine and dandy, but if you’re goingthat route for a WR that dude’s ceiling better be near the Randy Moss/TO level. I just never bought that with White even assuming good health.

      Or to think of it another way I was never convinced he was an extreme outlier compared to the picks that were assumed to immediately followed.

      P.S. starting to think about the draft, eh?

      • ButtonShoes

        All of the buzz surrounding White started with his performance at the combine. Before that, there was nothing. It’s possible, even probable, that he overtrained for the combine to boost his draft stock. It was a bad pick when Pace made it, and it’s obvious that it’s a bust of a pick now.

        • BearDown100393

          There are high picks that generate unanimous scouting “has it” quality. And others who generate “potential has it” grading.

          White fell in the 2nd group.

      • Big Mike

        No, not thinking about the upcoming draft. I was cleaning bookmarks. Brandon Scherf sure would have fit in nicely. Two colleges on my permanent shit list. Wisconsin (thanks Gabe Carimi) now WV.

    • BearDown100393

      Quintessential Bears drafting.

      • Well, at least Randy Gregory is out of the league, I guess.

        • CanadaBear

          Not exactly a murderer’s row of great FB talent. Looking at Beasley and Scherff sitting there is a pisser.

          • I remember being happy as fuck for my Foreskin’s friend when they landed Scherff.

            Sent him some clips. He got hyped.

    • KentuckyBearsFan

      Gurley or Beasley would have been sweet.

  • CanadaBear

    McPhee to IR. Anderson to take his place Sunday. Probably the last we see of McPhee in a Bears uni. No guaranteed money left and his $7.575 mil salary next year is way too high for a part-time player with lots of injuries.

    • ButtonShoes

      McPhee is another Pace FA bust. In a long list of them.

    • BerwynBomber

      We will always have the image of him in sweats yelling at our starting QB as the latter walked off the field on MNF. Well, that and Glennon’s GF desiring him.

      • CanadaBear

        He was good that first year until he got injured. Since then you only see flashes of his old self. Baltimore was correct having him on a pitch count. DAMN!

        • BerwynBomber

          True. He was a beast that first year. I think at one point his pressure per rush percentage was near the highest in the entire league.

        • Scharfinator

          I think his knee injury was a bit damning.

          • ButtonShoes

            That and the fact that he’d never come remotely close to playing a full 16 game season as a starter. He was a situational pass-rusher in Baltimore who had just had knee surgery. It was a bad signing from the start.

          • BearDown100393

            Like a lot of his drafting, Pace looks at “potential has it” FAs.

        • McPhee is another Pace FA bust.

          My worry about ANY part-timer is that they break down. There’s usually a good reason their original team limits their snaps to begin with.

          But that’s part of the Pace cheap-ass FA M.O.

          1. Gamble on INJ-prone player (Prince, Jay Howard, Wheaton..)
          2. Gamble on unproven part-timer (McPhee…)

          This method is also why we’re so depleted by Nov.

          • CanadaBear

            Can’t disagree. He spent some real money on McPhee. Most of those other guys were expensive but easily cut.

          • willbest

            Really just any time a team lets a non-min wage FA walk there is a red flag.

          • BearDown100393

            Pace signs FAs similar to Epstein while restocking a farm system.

            There is no farm in the NFL.

          • Bender McLugh

            didn’t he bring in Hicks? I forget

          • willbest

            He did, and Trevathan, and Sitton, and Prince (if he sticks). The problem isn’t that Pace misses on FA’s its just that a lot of the FAs he gets end up contributing nothing. Demps, Rolle, Wheaton, Cooper, Royal. And even when they do, they find themselves lacking availability Freeman, McPhee, Kush, Demps, etc.

          • BearDown100393

            He has failed to adequately replace what he lets go.

            Slauson
            Marshall
            Jeffery
            Gould

            The Cohen/Howard did upgrade over aging Forte.

          • CanadaBear

            Sitton replaced Slauson. No need to let Slauson go but Sitton was more than an adequate replacement.

          • BearDown100393

            Yeah but Slauson on his own turned around the Rams and remains an inspiration to that team……

          • “Modestly” Huge Bears Penis

            It’s amazing that he turn around the Rams since he is on the Chargers. Maybe just being in the same city makes all the difference

          • “Modestly” Huge Bears Penis

            pretty sure the last 2 years the Bears have signed the most FAs in the NFL. That is telling of the total lack of talent on the team due to years of awful drafting. For the most part Pace went the cheap route in FA while building talent through the draft. I don’t fault him for that.

          • SC Dave

            That was exactly the right approach IMO.

          • BearDown100393

            So 1 guy……

          • Hey, Angelo got Pepp.

  • CanadaBear

    Not shocked the Bears got shut out for the Pro-Bowl. I’m guessing Hicks and Howard make it as fill-ins.

    • Perks of being on a suck ass team.

      PB fill-ins.

    • BearDown100393

      They both deserve the recognition. They are legit Pro-Bowlers.

  • CanadaBear

    I keep seeing Fisher wants the Bears HC job. Of course he does! He wants any NFL HC job at this point. I can say unequivocally that if the Beloved hire Fisher as HC I’m out.

    • Same here. And a maybe a few other retreads like Marvin Lewis.

      • willbest

        I would be shocked Pace goes with somebody with HC experience at the pro level unless its McDaniels or possibly Chudzinski.

      • BearDown100393

        Marvin Lewis’ next gig will be in a television studio.

        • willbest

          Is he remotely charismatic?

          • BearDown100393

            I thought he spoke alright for himself during Hard Knocks. HC in the NFL is a tough gig. He did it for 15 years? I think he gets a shot on television if he wants one.

          • Can he be worse than Dungy?

          • BearDown100393

            No.

            And IMO Lewis will provide more honest less sanctimonious commentary.

    • willbest

      Pace is going to be swinging for the fences on his HC pick. This precludes Fisher. All this is Fisher’s agent trying to get him an interview by simply crafting a story

      • ButtonShoes

        Never count out the Bears when it comes to doing something dumb.

      • CanadaBear

        Totally agree. It’s not like I’m looking for an excuse to abandon ship.

    • BearDown100393

      Pace won’t hire him.

      But McCaskey might.


  • There are some who seriously think Fox is worse than Marc Trestman.

    The Bears absolutely need a better coach, but the hate has gone too far.”

    Exactly WHAT is there NOT to hate about THE WORST winning pct in BEARS HISTORY?

    It’s this type of mentality why ppl keep showing up to Soldier Field while the McCaskeys keep up their incompetence.

    Wasn’t Andy one of those defending Fox last yr? Saying “oh, it’s just INJs”

    Well, whoever said that DESERVES this shit season. Enjoy it. Savor it. Cuz those apologists are part of the problem.

    Maybe, just maybe, if more ppl would’ve realized how FUCKING TURRIBLE Fox was last season, the heat would’ve been turned up, and maybe Pace would’ve been forced to hire a new HC b4 Trub was drafted (and maybe one of those HCs is either Kyle Shanahon or McVay)

    This is the same BS defense with Cutler.

    Anyone catch his 3 int soul sucking performance last week?

    Losses are losses are losses, and if you want to “contextualize” go game by game then and show where Fox’s mastermind won a game. I’ll wait.

    What metric are we using here to judge Fox?

    That he’s not Trestman?

    Trestman had a better record, so you’re right there.

    That this team hasn’t quit?

    Are we sure about that?

    Sure looked like it a this Nov and last Nov.

    That this team is not dysfunctional?

    Fangio doesn’t even want to be interim. Alshon got the fuck out as soon as possible (much like Pepp under Trestman). Fuller might do the same. Gilmore and other elite FAs wanted NO part of POX.

    Besides, debating if Fox is worse than Trestman is like arguing if Hitler is worse than Stalin.

    Their horribleness is Not mutually exclusive

    Rant. Over.

    • BearDown100393

      Sounds all familiar. Be prepared for a public stoning.

      Anyway, I fault the Bears less for hiring Fox.

      What I do fault the Bears for is having Hobo still around.

      Whomever decided Hobo remain HC to present time, is truly running the Bears.

      McCaskey pledged accountability after Emery/Trestman.

      McCaskey lied.

      • I’m not down on the ENTIRE Bears’ future though.

        There’s glimmers of hopes but Fox was not one of those since last season.

        And it boggles my mind that so many fans didn’t see it.

        Pace could make up for a lot by finally choosing the right HC, splurging a lil in FA, and hitting a grand-slam in the next draft.

        Will he?

        Guess that depends if you’re a glass-half full/empty type of dude.

        • BearDown100393

          Pace deserves the opportunity to hire his own HC staff.

          And he deserves to be held accountable for that HC’s W/L record thereafter.

          • I always felt that too.

            I have been pretty patient with Pace.

            Always felt he got anchored with Cargo and Hobo along with 20 yrs of Angelo/Emery infrastructure.

            But in typical Bears luck, Pace selected a franchise QB in what was perceived to be a weak QB class.

            And next yr he’s going to have to hire an HC in what is perceived to be a mediocre HC batch.

            Like I said, Maybe Pace pulls it off. But gotta be somewhat tempered in the face of reality.

          • BearDown100393

            He is in a tough spot. This decision will “make his bones” in the NFL. Despite what we may or may not think of Hobo, John Fox is a well regarded lifer. He has to select a HC who believes in his draft pick gamble with Mitch. That is one component. He also has to decide who will be really in charge of the roster – is the new HC simply to coach whomever is added to the Bears roster by Pace or does Pace supply and demand the players wanted by the HC? Is Pace willing to do so for the right hire?

          • SC Dave

            You choice of the word “infrastructure” was well-made. I have been more verbose than that when talking about the scope of rottenness that the Bears organization has gradually become since Jim Finks left for New Orleans.

      • Irish Sweetness

        Public stoning, private stoning … like, wherever, man.

    • Bender McLugh

      What metric are we using here to judge Fox?

      That he’s not Trestman?

      yes

      • BearDown100393

        Should be his record.

        • Bender McLugh

          absolutely, which is why he will be shown the door

          • BearDown100393

            IMO that should already have occurred.

            I will let it go if the next hire (assuming there is one) is a step upward shown in the wins column next season.

            Disclaimer: I thought the Hobo hire was a step in the right direction at the time.

          • Bender McLugh

            agreed! holy shit, did I just agree with you?

          • BearDown100393

            Put Hobo on the 1st train out of town.

            Show the locker that accountability from upstairs is expected.

            Set a new tone for next season.

          • It’s a festivus miracle.

    • willbest

      Pepp was a cap casualty. High priced FA’s weren’t being offered anything extra to come to Chicago where taxes are high, the weather sucks, and the team doesn’t win. Why would you put up with that if they weren’t paying you to?

      Don’t get me wrong. Trestman was an awful coach. He wasn’t able to adapt his offensive scheme in 2014 after people figured him out. He lost control of the locker room and his coaching staff. But anybody that thinks the 2017 Bears have less raw talent than the 2014 Bears is smoking the strong stuff. Sure they had some offensive weapons, but the o-line was shot and the D was a pile of 5 day old warm dog shit. And he still managed 5 wins.

      Fox has pissed away more talent this year than Trestman managed in 2 years. The only thing that Fox has done better than cryptkeeper is message discpline in the month of December.

      • Bender McLugh

        hey hey now, summer in Chicago is awesome, and you know this man

      • evantonio

        how does dog shit stay warm after 5 days? is it baking in the sun? is it possibly sitting on a metal grate over the subway so it constantly gets blasted with warm air?

        • Bender McLugh

          island dogshit can stay warm for weeks

          • BearDown100393

            It can last for years on top of Park District turf.

          • CanadaBear

            I live on an Island an unfortunately we got a shitpot of snow yesterday. Pretty sure the dog crap is no longer warm! Must be on the wrong Island??!!

          • Bender McLugh

            Apparently!

        • Irish Sweetness

          Another reason dogs are disgusting is that the dog shit could be licked up by another dog at some point.

          Find me a cat that would do that.

          (stirs pot and leaves)

      • BerwynBomber

        Mostly agree and it is a valid point when comparing 2014 Trestman vs. 2017 Fox. But the notable advantages Trestman had over Fox were Cutler, Alshon and Uni.

        I would be surprised if Bisky isn’t as good as or ultimately better than Cutler, but he is not there yet and we have no current WR or TE near Alshon’s or Uni’s level.

  • ButtonShoes

    Kyle Long is a Pro Bowl alternate?

    Huh? Seriously?

    • BerwynBomber

      Hah!

      • ButtonShoes

        I think the people who vote on these things don’t watch Bears games.

        • BerwynBomber

          I’d imagine once it gets down to alternate interior lineman they are largely going on rep.

          • SC Dave

            Didn’t I just get done saying the Pro Bowl means nothing?

          • BearDown100393

            Money means everything

  • FF..

    Well, it’s another fucked up lost season, except for me in FF!

    Yup, yours truly is once more in the 2wk FF Championship.

    Bears 505 is the challenger this time around.

    Team 1……………………………..Team 2
    QB. Cousins………………………Keenum
    QB. Goff……………………………Foles
    RB. J.Williams…………………….Bell
    RB M. Davis……………………….Howard
    WR Thielen……………………….M. Thomas
    WR. Marvin Jones………………Julio Jones
    TE. Charles Clay………………..Ertz
    Flex Powell…………………………Hunt
    Def Jags……………………………Bears
    K. Elliot………………………………Tucker

    There can only be one!

    • Irish Sweetness

      Davis and Williams?? A combined total of about 60 yards. No TDs.

  • Ok. and since it’s a fucktastic fox season, it’s easy to be negative and turn on ea other like rabid hyenas .

    So, in the eggnog spirit.

    Name a soundtrack/singer with great holiday songs

    I nominate. Sinatra

    • SC Dave

      Good call on the pop front. I’d look up Nat Cole for competition, but in the end, I’d go with Chanticleer.

    • leftcoastdave

      Leon Redbone.

    • Bender McLugh

      James Brown, A Funky Christmas

      good stuff!

    • Sactowns#1

      Sinatra is my go to.
      My others:
      Mavis Staples
      Weezer
      Springsteen
      Mojo Nixon
      Ramones
      RUN DMC
      Nat King Cole
      Gene Autrey
      Dino

      • Irish Sweetness

        Nat.

        Deano.

  • willbest

    Jeffery didn’t make the pro-bowl that probably cost him $2 million.

    • BearDown100393

      He will go eventually

    • Bear Instincts

      screw jeffery

      • SC Dave

        Why? He’s just a kid ftom rural SC that decided to walk away from a shit show in snowy Chicago and test the waters elsewhere.

        Happens to have landed with a conference front runner.

        And were he were to somehow be Super Bowl MVP, I’d be nothing but happy for him.

        • BearDown100393

          Indeed.

          Alshon pioneered a trail for other Bears to follow.

        • AlbertInTucson

          “I don’t want to wait 2 or 3 (or more) seasons to contend.”

  • BerwynBomber

    More Bears PB information:

    J. Howard (RB) — 1st alternate
    T. Cohen (Returns) — 2nd alternate
    K. Long (OG) — 2nd alternate
    A. Hicks (DL) — 4th alternate

    • willbest

      4th? He got fucking robbed. Total bullshit

      • BearDown100393

        Hicks should have been a shoo-in.

      • Bear Instincts

        firefox/pace and ownership robbed him by putting a crappy team around him

        • SC Dave

          Whatever.

    • Irish Sweetness

      Kyle Long in the PB???

  • willbest

    I can’t help but think the Eagles actually have a shot to make the SB even without Wentz.

    They have already clinched a first round bye, and if they either win 1 game or the vikings lose 1 game over the next 2 weeks they get home field throughout. Their D is solid, and Foles is a solid option if he isn’t forced to win a game on his own.

    • BearDown100393

      Agreed.

      They are good enough just to get beaten by an AFC team in the SB.

    • BerwynBomber

      There is no NE in the NFC.

      I think PHI, MIN and LAR all have good shots. And NO and CAR the best among the remaining four. Don’t see ATL or DET doing much.

      • SC Dave

        The Rams looked damn good beating The Fuck out of the Seahawks.

        But living in the Carolinas, I’m of course pulling for the Panthers.

        After all, it’s always better being around happy fans than sad ones.

        Except for Cheeseheads.

    • AlbertInTucson

      I dunno.

      Their D is struggling of late.

      Gave up 500 yards to the Giants Sunday.

    • Foles falls into the perfect situation.

      A decent Oline. Weapons (Alshon, Aghlor, Ertz…), innovative OC

      And he likely won’t kill you like Cutler.

      Crazy to think that Foles, Keenum and Goff, who were left for dead last season, are now surging SB favorites.

      Meanwhile Brees has turned more into a caretaker really relying on Kamara/Ingram

      While Cam and Matty Ice are heating up, but have had rollercoaster seasons.

      It’s anyone’s SB.

      The HC is the tie-breaker (as we saw in that Steelers-Pats game), but who’s the best HC in the NFC?

      Edit. The one huge bonus the Rams have is that they have the best DC in Wade Phillips who just utterly crushed the Sea-hawks.

      • willbest

        Eagles went into the Rams house and punched them in the face. Yes they had Wentz, but the next time they play the Rams it will be in Philly. West coast team going East. The Eagles stayed out on the West coast after their date in Seattle. And depending on how the bracket shakes out they could be playing them off the bye.

      • KentuckyBearsFan

        Foles could end up being Jeff Hostetler 0.8.

    • Bender McLugh

      They have an excellent team I just don’t see them getting past the Rams.

  • BearDown100393

    “Hopefully Sunday’s game is an opportunity for people to see Bears that
    usually can’t afford the tickets. You can get them for pennies right
    now.”

    Do not waste your pennies.

    Rich or poor.

  • BerwynBomber

    Springboarding off Jeff’s fired HC list, here are my Black Monday predictions:

    Fox
    McAdoo
    Pagano
    Lewis
    Koetter
    Mularkey
    Joseph

    Btw, for all the hot seat talk around semi-successful HCs like Caldwell and O’Brian, why does Jay Gruden get a pass?

    • Good point about Gruden.

      I think he gets a pass cuz he’s seen as shaping Cousins into a franchise QB.

      Though he has done less with him than Lewis has with Dalton.

      • BerwynBomber

        Could be. I thought Cousins might be more of McVay creation but sometimes hard to know where an HC with strong O background ends and the OC begins in terms of QB development.

    • BearDown100393

      McAdoo already fired

      • BerwynBomber

        It was such a fait accompli that I managed to forget it happened.

    • “Modestly” Huge Bears Penis

      Lewis’s contract is up this year. He already stated he is moving on. So technically he isn’t being fired.

  • AlbertInTucson

    ESPN Secures Rights To Stream Monday Night Football To Mobile Phones.

    http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/currency/espn-gets-right-stream-mnf-mobile-phones/170777

    • Bender McLugh

      Hopefully they beef up their servers, mediocre stream quality

      • AlbertInTucson

        That seems to be THE common complaint about streaming.

    • EnderWiggin

      We need Google to buy the rights to NFL. HQ YouTube streams, my brothers and I would gladly fork over $5-$10 / week for that.

  • willbest

    “Four guys next to me at bar in Edison Park. They were drinking – I shit
    you not – MGD, Miller Lite, Miller 64 & High Life. That’s the Miller
    Flush.” – Jeff

    Edison Park, that is where all the city workers live. Jeff is basically in the suburbs.

    • CanadaBear

      Gotta admit that table is 0-4 when it comes to drinking decent beer.

      • Dis Guy Trublinsky

        But it’s the Champagne of Beers……

      • willbest

        But Miller Lite is my favorite beer flavored water! In all seriousness though there was probably a deal on a miller bucket. Then again, I do know a guy from a poker game that frequents Edison Park Inn. He always brings a 6-pack of High Life to the game. Maybe its him.

        • BuddhaJoe

          “Beer flavored water” is perfect.

        • CanadaBear

          We used to always say a shot of Pabst in a can of water.

    • KentuckyBearsFan

      Miller Lite is okay if the taste can be chased with sipping whiskey.

      Miller High Life is an abomination to God.

      • willbest

        I don’t think I have ever had it or Miller 64. I am more of a scotch guy, but when I drink beer, if I can read the menu through the glass, its too light.

  • ButtonShoes

    This is a trolling tweet, right? Someone tell me it’s not legit:

    https://twitter.com/cornoptions1/status/943194520061202434

    • That Guy

      Who in LA would recognize Ryan Pace, anyway? Does Jeff Fisher even still live there?

      • ButtonShoes

        Fuck if I know. I just want to know that whoever that guy is, that he’s full of shit.

      • BearDown100393

        I heard Fisher is actually Pace’s dad.

  • recommended HCs

    Chiefs OC Matt Nagy was on the list of head-coaching candidates recommended by the NFL to teams with potential head-coaching vacancies.

    We’re expecting a potentially unprecedented number of head-coaching jobs to open up after this season. Per The Ringer’s Mike Lombardi, Nagy was joined by Patriots OC and DC Josh McDaniels and Matt Patricia, Texans DC Mike Vrabel, Vikings DC George Edwards, Saints assistant HC/TEs Dan Campbell, Chiefs STs coach Dave Toub, Eagles QBs coach John DeFilippo, Eagles DC Jim Schwartz, Panthers DC Steve Wilks, Lions OC Jim Bob Cooter, and Vikings OC Pat Shurmur on the list. The
    list will be viewed by owners and ownership groups looking to make head-coaching changes. – Roto

    I still don’t understand how the Eagles can block Flip from becoming an OC, an OBVIOUS promotion from QB’s coach

    Then wouldn’t that mean that every team can cock-block their assistant and specialist coaches from every non-HC job?

    • That Guy

      Chiefs have the #2 ranked ST in the NFL. Bring in Toub, snag a wunderkind OC and try to keep Fangio, and I’m happy.

      Hell, give Sanchez a job as QB coach.

      • Dis Guy Trublinsky

        There has to be a reason Toub has always been overlooked. I don’t know what it is, but something must not click.

        • CanadaBear

          I’ve always suspected guys like Toub and Fangio are either too rough around the edges for owners or really crappy in interviews.

    • willbest

      Coaches sign 2/3 year contracts. So they can be blocked in the sense that the team doesn’t need to let them out of their contract. NFL rules stipulate this can’t be done if the position they would be moving to is the head coach of another team. This is probably done to prevent hording of coaching talent, and to give every GM the opportunity to enact his vision so as to maximize competition.

  • Dis Guy Trublinsky

    Sorry if it’s alreasy been posted, but Cohen named a Pro Bowl alternate.

    Not too shabby for a third round rookie, out of a D2 school, we all thought was likely too small to survive a season. Not to mention, he’s playing for Fox and Co.

    Perhaps the biggest surprise for me is that the kid is proving to be durable. Some guys are just made out of better stuff, even if they’re little.

    • BearDown100393

      Well earned. A bit more upper body work during the off season and he’ll be a beast in camp.

    • Pretty Boy Assassin

      Great…get that man a new O-Coordinator

    • CanadaBear

      Not to put too fine of a point on it but Tarik was their second pick in the 4th rd.

  • BearDown100393

    Black Monday should be a national holiday. It is cherished among suffering football fans looking to kick the head coach to the curb. It really needs a New Orleans funeral vibe.

    • The NFL needs to parade them through their respective cities like the English did with BraveHeart.

      How therapeutic would that be – carting Fox through Chicago while adults and children alike pummel him with lettuce and tomato…

      • ButtonShoes

        Oh God. I would PAY to be a part of that. Only I’d bring rocks. BIG ONES. And I’d be looking for Pace or the McCaskeys to fling them at, too.

    • BerwynBomber

      Last year Black Monday was shortchanged by all the in-season firings. This year we Black Monday fans have only been denied McAdoo. It looks like a promising Black Monday.

  • BuddhaJoe

    Man, all the potential coaching hires I’ve seen around the web are fucking depressing. Toub is the best I’ve seen. It’s making me think that my idea of Gym Shorts wasn’t actually crazy, he got the worst team ever to the playoffs in 3 years despite a shitty GM.

    • Pretty Boy Assassin

      I’m excited about the possibilities, which of course, do not include Jeff Fisher.
      – Frank Reich – that O looks good, but he’s not the top of my list

      – Pat Schirmer – Vikings have lost their starting QB…didn’t matter. Vikings lost their starting RB…didn’t matter.

      – John DeFilippo – Carson Wentz…enough said

      – Matt Patricia – has learned from the best and is a winner

      – Dave Toub – can coach the bottom of the roster better than anyone. why not the rest of it

      – and hopefully, Bill O’Brien – proven head coach with terrible QB luck

      • ButtonShoes

        Stay away from anyone in the Belichick coaching tree. It never works out well.

  • BearDown100393
    • ButtonShoes

      If Chris Ballard were GM, that would have a real chance of happening. Alas.

  • AlbertInTucson

    Steelers are scheduled for this Sunday night which is PROBABLY why the game against the Pats last Sunday was not flexed to the evening.

    • CanadaBear

      The networks can protect a few games from being flexed. Last Sunday’s Pats/Steelers was one of them.

  • AlbertInTucson

    “Norv Turner is a name to watch there since Toub did coach with his brother, Ron, ”

    Ron Turner.

    Architect of the Bears’ Super Bowl defeat.

  • fishing florida

    2018 bears – dave toub. already one of the best coaches the bears have ever had.

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